Tony, I just love this article about the watch industry and collecting. You keep it real with descriptions of the intersection of enthusiast and business with regard to the watch industry. I've learned so much from you. Thank you!
The Bonhams Tank's dial was supposedly refinished by Cartier at service for £258(!?). If that is true it's concerning because the numerals and script of new dial are all scrawny and have totally lost their charm. It doesn't reflect well on Cartier's (or whoever they chose to outsource the work to) craftsmanship. Many years ago I knew a guy who worked as a polisher (lol) at a Cartier office in Asia. He told me once over beers that his mission in life was buffing out every scratch so thoroughly that the watch would look like new for the customer. I didn't know what to say to him and remember hoping he was just drunk. Enjoyed this post and very much looking forward to reading about those wonderful Reversos.
Regarding the hammer price - a customer of mine owns and operates a brick and mortar watch store in a major Asian city. He says that a segment of his customer base is totally fine with service dials, replaced movements, etc as long as it is accompanied by the relevant service paperwork from the brand. In fact, some even prefer this to an all original example. This is hard to fathom for people like us, but I guess it reflects the diversity of values in our market.
part of my "the middle is getting squeezed" theory is that brand(s) in this category will essentially fold. but i've had this argument with many who disagree, often saying there's simply too much heritage in these brands for them to go under.
Heritage doesn’t pay the bills when you’re not selling watches. I agree with you. I see the brands selling watches between $1500 and $3900 not all surviving.
Great read Tony! More perspectives on watches isn't necessarily a bad thing but could lead to a faster burnout when you're constantly looking at the dollars of it all
Great write-up Tony! Reading it makes me want to make on my experiences too honestly. Curious on that Reverso project that you're currently working on, this vintage Reverso lineup surely needs more exposure as i found it is very enjoyable compared to the newer ones, especially in a few year it'll be 100th years old watches.
i prefer old reversos but there's no doubt the cases are comparably subpar to the modern ones. there's a sweet spot in the '80s-90s for functionality and aesthetic though. The Shadow is one of my favorite modern-ish Reversos, and relatively easy to find (for now).
Exactly, owning both the early vintage under lisica movement and the grande taille ones made my eyes open how they have develop through times. I second you, the shadow is a very beautiful variant.
Relevant to your interests—insofar as it touches upon many of the same ideas surrounding luxury, exclusivity, and the attendant assaying of worth in financial, interpersonal, and sociological contexts—you may want to dig into W. David Marx's "Status and Culture" when you have the time.
(If you haven't already done so, that is. I may well have missed an offhand reference in a past missive.)
There are undercurrents of Nietzsche, Hegel, de Saussure, and Bourdieu ("On the Genealogy of Morality," Dialectics, Semiotics, Habitus, etc.), not to mention the increasingly ubiquitous Walter Benjamin ("Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction"), but it's a rather more modern and accessible treatment of the interplay between class structures, cultural signifiers, and commercial habits, all of which maps quite neatly onto modern watchdom.
yes! i've not read cover to cover, but have read bits and pieces. I found Ametora much more enjoyable and readable, but the subject matter was also much lighter.
“Despite the efforts of many, not much is happening at the intersection of technology and watches.”
Strongly disagree, tech continues to transform the business of watches, if not the watches themselves. E-commerce continues to grow. Technology is directly responsible for greater secondary market transparency (WatchCharts), as well as discoverability of archival material (The Watch Library). The collector community is better connected than ever before (WatchCrunch, IG). Brands have invested in improving the customer experience for sales, service, reporting stolen watches, instruction manuals, etc via mobile apps (Richemont).
There’s probably a lot more to list when it comes to the actual watchmaking as well.
you're right, i was trying to make a more granular point i think but was a bit hand-wavy. Instagram has been the most influential force on watches in the past 15 years, imo. A topic worthy of a deeper look.
You’re a real one Tony
thanks for reading, Roland
Tony, is there a list of watches you avoid just like there is for words?!?! As always, great piece ; )
i should make one haha
Tony, I just love this article about the watch industry and collecting. You keep it real with descriptions of the intersection of enthusiast and business with regard to the watch industry. I've learned so much from you. Thank you!
thanks for reading jeff, you're the man! hope to catch up in person soon, too.
The list of "words to avoid" is amazing. A true public service, and it will be saved on my desktop.
haha i'll add to it next time, then!
Workhorse movement
The Bonhams Tank's dial was supposedly refinished by Cartier at service for £258(!?). If that is true it's concerning because the numerals and script of new dial are all scrawny and have totally lost their charm. It doesn't reflect well on Cartier's (or whoever they chose to outsource the work to) craftsmanship. Many years ago I knew a guy who worked as a polisher (lol) at a Cartier office in Asia. He told me once over beers that his mission in life was buffing out every scratch so thoroughly that the watch would look like new for the customer. I didn't know what to say to him and remember hoping he was just drunk. Enjoyed this post and very much looking forward to reading about those wonderful Reversos.
Interesting, thanks for the additional context re the Tank. Sold for £6,400 which is basically market (?), I would've expected less.
Also, we can only hope that brands' perspective on polishing has evolved as collectors have become more informed, but...
Regarding the hammer price - a customer of mine owns and operates a brick and mortar watch store in a major Asian city. He says that a segment of his customer base is totally fine with service dials, replaced movements, etc as long as it is accompanied by the relevant service paperwork from the brand. In fact, some even prefer this to an all original example. This is hard to fathom for people like us, but I guess it reflects the diversity of values in our market.
good point. also the more old-school approach to collecting, I suppose.
Thanks for your writing, Tony. Your analysis is excellent, your views insightful and the topic you pick are perfect.
Do you see any signs that GP could go under in the future? Or do you see them being sold to a larger group?
part of my "the middle is getting squeezed" theory is that brand(s) in this category will essentially fold. but i've had this argument with many who disagree, often saying there's simply too much heritage in these brands for them to go under.
Heritage doesn’t pay the bills when you’re not selling watches. I agree with you. I see the brands selling watches between $1500 and $3900 not all surviving.
This was so great, Tony. Hoping you have many more anniversary updates in the future.
thanks PC!
Great read Tony! More perspectives on watches isn't necessarily a bad thing but could lead to a faster burnout when you're constantly looking at the dollars of it all
to be clear, i'm not constantly looking at the $$ of it all – only sometimes!
As always, insightful, honest and a pleasure to read.
thanks lawerence!
Classy write up as always friend. Great insight and honesty!
thanks my man, now let's get you that dive watch!
Have recommended and gifted Deluxe to many people. What a great book.
truly required reading
Great write-up Tony! Reading it makes me want to make on my experiences too honestly. Curious on that Reverso project that you're currently working on, this vintage Reverso lineup surely needs more exposure as i found it is very enjoyable compared to the newer ones, especially in a few year it'll be 100th years old watches.
i prefer old reversos but there's no doubt the cases are comparably subpar to the modern ones. there's a sweet spot in the '80s-90s for functionality and aesthetic though. The Shadow is one of my favorite modern-ish Reversos, and relatively easy to find (for now).
Exactly, owning both the early vintage under lisica movement and the grande taille ones made my eyes open how they have develop through times. I second you, the shadow is a very beautiful variant.
The LMM-01 really doesn’t get old does it? Still getting tons of mileage out of mine. One of the best for the price.
truly – i got it just recently and have been wearing it a ton.
Relevant to your interests—insofar as it touches upon many of the same ideas surrounding luxury, exclusivity, and the attendant assaying of worth in financial, interpersonal, and sociological contexts—you may want to dig into W. David Marx's "Status and Culture" when you have the time.
(If you haven't already done so, that is. I may well have missed an offhand reference in a past missive.)
There are undercurrents of Nietzsche, Hegel, de Saussure, and Bourdieu ("On the Genealogy of Morality," Dialectics, Semiotics, Habitus, etc.), not to mention the increasingly ubiquitous Walter Benjamin ("Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction"), but it's a rather more modern and accessible treatment of the interplay between class structures, cultural signifiers, and commercial habits, all of which maps quite neatly onto modern watchdom.
That, and there's a Cartier Tank on the cover:
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/659558/status-and-culture-by-w-david-marx/
yes! i've not read cover to cover, but have read bits and pieces. I found Ametora much more enjoyable and readable, but the subject matter was also much lighter.
“Despite the efforts of many, not much is happening at the intersection of technology and watches.”
Strongly disagree, tech continues to transform the business of watches, if not the watches themselves. E-commerce continues to grow. Technology is directly responsible for greater secondary market transparency (WatchCharts), as well as discoverability of archival material (The Watch Library). The collector community is better connected than ever before (WatchCrunch, IG). Brands have invested in improving the customer experience for sales, service, reporting stolen watches, instruction manuals, etc via mobile apps (Richemont).
There’s probably a lot more to list when it comes to the actual watchmaking as well.
you're right, i was trying to make a more granular point i think but was a bit hand-wavy. Instagram has been the most influential force on watches in the past 15 years, imo. A topic worthy of a deeper look.
Really loving this personal take and reflections, not enough of that from folks in the industry! Thanks for the work.
thanks nick, more where that came from!